In July, 2004, we decided to add on to the house. We will be putting a 8 x 16 walkout to a 16 x 12 deck, with a 24 x 16 cabana attached.

Deck

We will be putting the deck footings down to 60".I initially thought I would use some kind of composite decking, but after researching these forums, I'm going with Ipe.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/porch/

http://www.homeressources.com/forum/list.php?f=7

Cabana

Here are two images of what we have in mind: A finished sample and a line drawing of what we'll be building (www.cabanavillage.com). We will put a spa in the cabana. We want to enclose the spa for the following reasons, nasty mosquito problem, privacy and -60 and lower winter wind chills (we live in Keywest, MN).

I will power ventilate the cabana with this: Panasonic FV-40VQ3

 

SPA

Resources:

http://www.angelfire.com/mi2/hottubs/forum.htm

http://www.poolsearch.com/forum/list.php?f=8

http://spaforums.com/

http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub

Arctic keyword search on whatsthebest-hottub.com site.

All the spa companies that I could find. I left a few out because of their bad reputation

We (my wife mostly, therefore we) are leaning toward the Arctic Spa-Tundra.

Here's why:

• I really like the accessibility
• The tubs are nicely designed
• The hydrotherapy seems to be well suited to us
• They are comfortable
• It provides the seating we desire
• The guarantee is excellent
• The depth is perfect for maximum coverage during a cold day.
• The sides are of high quality cedar that will match our cabana nicely
• They are sufficiently insulated for our northern environment
• They have a remote control I can mount in the house to operate/monitor the tub remotely.
• The dealer in Winnipeg, MB is most excellent. I spoke with Shannon (sales), and Clarence (sales/technician). They were both very, very pleasant, answered all of our questions, were very patient and let me poke around to my heart's content. This is a great dealer. My sick humor showed when I extended my arm deep into the tub's underside and as Shannon was watching, I jerked my body and yelled Aggghhhhh! She nearly jumped out of her shoes and it took a minute for her to regain her composure. He he.
• My local Hot springs dealer was not nearly as good.
• The 3-4" inches of foam on the doors and the 6+ on the remaining areas is sufficient in my mind.
• The Reflex hose is indeed agricultural hose. It is found on air seeders. I'm doing some research on this and will publish it as I complete it. I watched this hose in operation and it flexes a great deal when the pumps are engaged. I could feel no stress on the jets, the hose simply expands, extends and freely moves around when the pumps come on. It wouldn't be good design to anchor these hoses to anything. Letting them move is a good thing. PVC has excellent abrasion resistance, so that's a non-issue.
• The insulation technique is actually quite effective. For that matter, it could be too effective in warm weather. The cavity can become warm enough to cause the water to exceed its setting. In this situation Arctic sells louvered panels to replace the solid ones to provide some ventilation. If the tub is protected from rodent infestation, then simply removing a panel or two would work as well.
• I'm not concerned about not having a local dealer because: They will allow me to do my own warranty service (good), they will come if I want/need them to, and it is likely that I can get some technical training on my tub to boot (very, very good)

Conversations with dealers:

7/30 I called the local Marquis dealer today and asked them about the risks of freezing during extended power outages. They said that it could be a problem with the Marquis and if there is an extended electrical outage, people put a propane heater on the pump area. (I will take a deserved motorcycle trip to Brainerd 7/31 to look at their tubs and ask more questions)

7/30 Called the Beachcomber dealer in Fargo. He seemed quite distracted when I called, perhaps he was. He seemed a bit hyper too. I asked if I could wet test, and he paused, thought and said yes. I sensed that something was unusual about all of this. He called me back (using caller ID since I didn't leave a contact number), and asked how many were going to be wet testing. He said he wanted to know what to expect. If a bunch of college kids were going to show up, he wanted to be aware of it. He took the opportunity to tell me that Beachcomber was the best tub available and he had been selling it for 'x'teen years. My first impression was that he was a bit forward. I was not comfortable with him on the phone. We'll see tomorrow.

Posts made on http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com

http://tinyurl.com/3rpoy

7/30/2004

Just what everyone wanted to hear, another discussion of the characteristics of full foam vs. thermopane.

I'm just a little concerned, no, much concerned about the susceptibility of a spa's pumps and plumbing freezing up during power outages. As some of you know, I've been shopping/thinking/researching spas and like the thermopane concept. After looking at the Marquis, which many of you have high regard for, the pumps and plumbing look like they would be likely to freeze-up during extended power outages. We have frequent power outages, with the worst one lasting 10 days during Blizzard Hannah in 1997. We weren't flooded, but did have to ride out the 3 day blizzard, 6 days without runnng water and 10 days without power.

http://www.cnn.com/WEATHER/9704/07/flood.update/index.html or here if their link no longer works.

and

http://www.rwic.und.edu/blizzard97/ or here.

I realize that even the best thermopane design won't stay liquid for 10 days, but I would have at least a couple of days to make a plan. I sent an email last night to Marquis tech support and here's the email exchange:

RC asks:

Dear Marquis support,

I live in N. MN and power outages are common. If the power goes out when our outside temperatures are -20 or -30 F, how long could I expect the pumps and plumbing adjacent to the pumps to remain unfrozen?

Marquis support responds:

That is a hard question to answer, but on average you should be fine for several hours.

Best regards,
name withheld (my change)
Customer Service

My comment: Several hours does not give me much consolation. A situation that demands keeping the house warm vs. keeping the spa from freezing is not my idea of a good time. Thermopane design will give me more time to make a plan and pay attention to the more important issues of keeping a house warm.

Vented and screened side panels are optional for those experiencing high cabinet temps. If the tub is indoors, protected from rodents, you can just remove a panel or two to keep the area cooler.

Follow-up 7/30

It is my opinion that:

Fully foamed tubs are better for warmer climates. Reason: Less risk of freezing, electrical waste heat doesn't contribute to higher cavity and water temps.

Thermopane design is better for colder climates. Reason: Greater risk of freezing; water keeps the pumps and adjacent lines warm. I won't argure the efficiencies of having the electrical equipment contribute waste heat to the water. Evidence is not well documented yet (yes, I've seen the independent study that Arctic had done)